<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	
	>
<channel>
	<title>
	Comments on: In Sickness and In Health (Part 2) &#8211; The Pain Game	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://myomyfitness.com/in-sickness-and-in-health-part-2-the-pain-game/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://myomyfitness.com/in-sickness-and-in-health-part-2-the-pain-game/</link>
	<description>Healthy and Strong at Home with Kettlebells</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 20 Mar 2016 14:08:16 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>
	hourly	</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>
	1	</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4</generator>
	<item>
		<title>
		By: Miranda Nevin		</title>
		<link>https://myomyfitness.com/in-sickness-and-in-health-part-2-the-pain-game/#comments/147442</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Miranda Nevin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2014 02:29:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.pullupacademy.com/myomytv.com/?p=7070#comment-147442</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://myomyfitness.com/in-sickness-and-in-health-part-2-the-pain-game/#comments/109691&quot;&gt;Jonathan Fass&lt;/a&gt;.

Dr. Fass, thank you SO much for your detailed reply (and I apologize for taking two months to acknowledge it - I&#039;d checked back a while ago but didn&#039;t see it - I must have gone to the Part 2 comments section!).

This topic fascinates me - I&#039;m now setting about deciphering the postural-structural biomechanics model better. I&#039;m most willing to accept this current understanding of fascia and thixotrophy. As eager as I am to confirm the benefits of manual therapies, I am equally willing to accept criticisms of it, or at least indications of its limitations. I couldn&#039;t consider myself a professional in this field if I weren&#039;t. Yes, the human body is incredibly resilient, and if our fascia could really be affected as quickly or deeply as those who employ mild heat/manual pressure to affect it often claim, then we&#039;d be in trouble! As a CMT I am known to deliver on deep pressure (no client has ever said that I didn&#039;t give enough), and I sometimes wonder why my clients muscles aren&#039;t turned to jello if I gave so much ;)  What Paul Ingraham explains about circulation is intuitively true for me, and I admit that a solid, usually fairly full-body, workout can be just as if not more effective for me than a session of massage therapy: after I exert my body well, a specific soreness in muscle that has been bothering me often fades or disappears - even if I don&#039;t go and &quot;stretch&quot; that muscle (group) which I think is causing or contributing to the ache. 

Amongst MTs, language like &quot;muscle releasing&quot;, &quot;lengthening muscle fibers&quot;, &quot;changing muscle fiber direction&quot; (such as with adhesions) is standard, and I&#039;ve always been skeptical about the degree to which cross fiber/longitudinal release techniques, for example, can really affect such shifts. Some clients do seem to &quot;respond&quot; better to certain techniques/touch, and I can often palpate shifts in the quality of tissue (including into deeper muscle layers) after working on it. When I observe greater ROM or a release from a postural deviation, I can quantity my value to a certain extent (even if those improvements are temporary and dependent on the client&#039;s active involvement after this point not to prolong poor habits). But in terms of this response and how individuals differ widely in their responses to manual therapies, would you say that an individual&#039;s power to &quot;let go&quot; is key, and that that process is mostly a neurological phenomenon (whether s/he enters into the parasympathetic state during the treatment), while also factoring in the specific severity and underlying complex causes of the local problem (hypertonicity, adhesions, active trigger points)? So, it *might* be easier to affect tissue through manual therapy and to address pain/tension present for individuals whose pain/tension is resulting from recent or comparatively minor injury/poor posture/ and/or superficial emotional difficulty vs. chronic, long-term or deeper physical or emotional-psychologically challenges? I can see that the individual&#039;s trust in his/her manual therapist and manual therapy itself also plays an important role.

Thank you again for your time!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://myomyfitness.com/in-sickness-and-in-health-part-2-the-pain-game/#comments/109691">Jonathan Fass</a>.</p>
<p>Dr. Fass, thank you SO much for your detailed reply (and I apologize for taking two months to acknowledge it &#8211; I&#8217;d checked back a while ago but didn&#8217;t see it &#8211; I must have gone to the Part 2 comments section!).</p>
<p>This topic fascinates me &#8211; I&#8217;m now setting about deciphering the postural-structural biomechanics model better. I&#8217;m most willing to accept this current understanding of fascia and thixotrophy. As eager as I am to confirm the benefits of manual therapies, I am equally willing to accept criticisms of it, or at least indications of its limitations. I couldn&#8217;t consider myself a professional in this field if I weren&#8217;t. Yes, the human body is incredibly resilient, and if our fascia could really be affected as quickly or deeply as those who employ mild heat/manual pressure to affect it often claim, then we&#8217;d be in trouble! As a CMT I am known to deliver on deep pressure (no client has ever said that I didn&#8217;t give enough), and I sometimes wonder why my clients muscles aren&#8217;t turned to jello if I gave so much 😉  What Paul Ingraham explains about circulation is intuitively true for me, and I admit that a solid, usually fairly full-body, workout can be just as if not more effective for me than a session of massage therapy: after I exert my body well, a specific soreness in muscle that has been bothering me often fades or disappears &#8211; even if I don&#8217;t go and &#8220;stretch&#8221; that muscle (group) which I think is causing or contributing to the ache. </p>
<p>Amongst MTs, language like &#8220;muscle releasing&#8221;, &#8220;lengthening muscle fibers&#8221;, &#8220;changing muscle fiber direction&#8221; (such as with adhesions) is standard, and I&#8217;ve always been skeptical about the degree to which cross fiber/longitudinal release techniques, for example, can really affect such shifts. Some clients do seem to &#8220;respond&#8221; better to certain techniques/touch, and I can often palpate shifts in the quality of tissue (including into deeper muscle layers) after working on it. When I observe greater ROM or a release from a postural deviation, I can quantity my value to a certain extent (even if those improvements are temporary and dependent on the client&#8217;s active involvement after this point not to prolong poor habits). But in terms of this response and how individuals differ widely in their responses to manual therapies, would you say that an individual&#8217;s power to &#8220;let go&#8221; is key, and that that process is mostly a neurological phenomenon (whether s/he enters into the parasympathetic state during the treatment), while also factoring in the specific severity and underlying complex causes of the local problem (hypertonicity, adhesions, active trigger points)? So, it *might* be easier to affect tissue through manual therapy and to address pain/tension present for individuals whose pain/tension is resulting from recent or comparatively minor injury/poor posture/ and/or superficial emotional difficulty vs. chronic, long-term or deeper physical or emotional-psychologically challenges? I can see that the individual&#8217;s trust in his/her manual therapist and manual therapy itself also plays an important role.</p>
<p>Thank you again for your time!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Five Strategies to Help Your Pain (Part 1) &#124; myomy.tv &#124; Coaching Fitness and Exploring Faith		</title>
		<link>https://myomyfitness.com/in-sickness-and-in-health-part-2-the-pain-game/#comments/114494</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Five Strategies to Help Your Pain (Part 1) &#124; myomy.tv &#124; Coaching Fitness and Exploring Faith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2014 18:34:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.pullupacademy.com/myomytv.com/?p=7070#comment-114494</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] Fass, DPT in an effort to iron out some commonly held myth-beliefs about pain and injury. Find that HERE and remember to check out the list of resources at the end of that article [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Fass, DPT in an effort to iron out some commonly held myth-beliefs about pain and injury. Find that HERE and remember to check out the list of resources at the end of that article [&#8230;]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Jonathan Fass		</title>
		<link>https://myomyfitness.com/in-sickness-and-in-health-part-2-the-pain-game/#comments/109691</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jonathan Fass]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2014 22:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.pullupacademy.com/myomytv.com/?p=7070#comment-109691</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://myomyfitness.com/in-sickness-and-in-health-part-2-the-pain-game/#comments/109309&quot;&gt;Miranda Nevin&lt;/a&gt;.

Hi Miranda, thanks for your question and I&#039;m glad that you enjoyed the post! 

There are a few concepts here that I think can be scrutinized. &quot;Thixotropy&quot; itself is a concept that largely doesn&#039;t appear to have relevance on the macro level of tissue that any manual therapy would take place in. I like what my friend Paul Ingraham had to say on the matter (his blog is a wonderful source of evidence-based practice directly relevant to MTs, if you&#039;re not already familiar with it) - http://saveyourself.ca/articles/thixotropy-is-not-therapy.php

The assumption of directly (mechanically) deforming fascia is higly questionable itself, as was concluded in the following (a widely referenced article on the reality of fascial stiffness and its resistance to deformation) - http://www.jaoa.osteopathic.org/content/108/8/379.full. If we can&#039;t mechanically deform fascia, then any influence on the fascia itself - assuming that we have any influence and also that influence is clinically important - cannot occur from direct manipulation, but rather indirect mechanisms through the nervous system. But given the multiple confounders of skin, muscle, joint, nerves, blood vessels, etc all potentially being influenced through our manual approach (and the only definitive influence that can be directly observed, of course, is the skin itself), we cannot confidently determine that any affect that we have on a patient is produced through an assumed interaction with fascia...there are just far too many confounders in that assumption. 

We know that contact with the patient very often is beneficial. However, the previously dominant biomedical theory (and postural-structural model in the manual therapies) often lead our reasoning towards a &quot;purely&quot; mechanistic means of explaining these influences, and fascial explanations were one of these attempts. That doesn&#039;t mean that manual therapies suddenly &quot;don&#039;t work,&quot; it just means that we need to adjust these explanations as new information replaces and updates the old. Fascial-based therapies largely falls into this category, IMO.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://myomyfitness.com/in-sickness-and-in-health-part-2-the-pain-game/#comments/109309">Miranda Nevin</a>.</p>
<p>Hi Miranda, thanks for your question and I&#8217;m glad that you enjoyed the post! </p>
<p>There are a few concepts here that I think can be scrutinized. &#8220;Thixotropy&#8221; itself is a concept that largely doesn&#8217;t appear to have relevance on the macro level of tissue that any manual therapy would take place in. I like what my friend Paul Ingraham had to say on the matter (his blog is a wonderful source of evidence-based practice directly relevant to MTs, if you&#8217;re not already familiar with it) &#8211; <a href="http://saveyourself.ca/articles/thixotropy-is-not-therapy.php" rel="nofollow ugc">http://saveyourself.ca/articles/thixotropy-is-not-therapy.php</a></p>
<p>The assumption of directly (mechanically) deforming fascia is higly questionable itself, as was concluded in the following (a widely referenced article on the reality of fascial stiffness and its resistance to deformation) &#8211; <a href="http://www.jaoa.osteopathic.org/content/108/8/379.full" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.jaoa.osteopathic.org/content/108/8/379.full</a>. If we can&#8217;t mechanically deform fascia, then any influence on the fascia itself &#8211; assuming that we have any influence and also that influence is clinically important &#8211; cannot occur from direct manipulation, but rather indirect mechanisms through the nervous system. But given the multiple confounders of skin, muscle, joint, nerves, blood vessels, etc all potentially being influenced through our manual approach (and the only definitive influence that can be directly observed, of course, is the skin itself), we cannot confidently determine that any affect that we have on a patient is produced through an assumed interaction with fascia&#8230;there are just far too many confounders in that assumption. </p>
<p>We know that contact with the patient very often is beneficial. However, the previously dominant biomedical theory (and postural-structural model in the manual therapies) often lead our reasoning towards a &#8220;purely&#8221; mechanistic means of explaining these influences, and fascial explanations were one of these attempts. That doesn&#8217;t mean that manual therapies suddenly &#8220;don&#8217;t work,&#8221; it just means that we need to adjust these explanations as new information replaces and updates the old. Fascial-based therapies largely falls into this category, IMO.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Miranda Nevin		</title>
		<link>https://myomyfitness.com/in-sickness-and-in-health-part-2-the-pain-game/#comments/109309</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Miranda Nevin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2014 03:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.pullupacademy.com/myomytv.com/?p=7070#comment-109309</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Marianne, thank you so much for this post! It is full of important information and clarifications. I am especially interested in receiving a copy of/link to any research material which brought Jonathan to the conclusion that &quot;contrary to what is commonly explained, these [manual] therapies almost certainly do not directly change the fascia&quot;. I am an LMT, and the thixotropic quality of fascia and our ability to influence tissue fibrosity, fiber directions and musclotendonous/fascial tissue tensility (etc.) is indeed what we stress as a core benefit of our work (above all in terms of increasing ROM, alleviating muscle-holding patterns, even if only temporarily depending on further sessions as well as the clients&#039; own work either to strengthen muscles, change posture, improve diet &#038; sleep and seek out inner peace - a holistic process). While I definitely also recognize the impact of nervous system on pain - its existence, its intensity, our very perception of it, but I&#039;d love to be enlightened further as to how Jonathan understands this subject. Your feedback is much appreciated! ~ Miranda]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marianne, thank you so much for this post! It is full of important information and clarifications. I am especially interested in receiving a copy of/link to any research material which brought Jonathan to the conclusion that &#8220;contrary to what is commonly explained, these [manual] therapies almost certainly do not directly change the fascia&#8221;. I am an LMT, and the thixotropic quality of fascia and our ability to influence tissue fibrosity, fiber directions and musclotendonous/fascial tissue tensility (etc.) is indeed what we stress as a core benefit of our work (above all in terms of increasing ROM, alleviating muscle-holding patterns, even if only temporarily depending on further sessions as well as the clients&#8217; own work either to strengthen muscles, change posture, improve diet &amp; sleep and seek out inner peace &#8211; a holistic process). While I definitely also recognize the impact of nervous system on pain &#8211; its existence, its intensity, our very perception of it, but I&#8217;d love to be enlightened further as to how Jonathan understands this subject. Your feedback is much appreciated! ~ Miranda</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Welcome to the New Myomytv and a New Journey &#124; myomy.tv &#124; Coaching Fitness and Exploring Faith		</title>
		<link>https://myomyfitness.com/in-sickness-and-in-health-part-2-the-pain-game/#comments/73842</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Welcome to the New Myomytv and a New Journey &#124; myomy.tv &#124; Coaching Fitness and Exploring Faith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2014 16:14:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.pullupacademy.com/myomytv.com/?p=7070#comment-73842</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] - Been in and out of pain and forced to reduce my training (just read my last blog posts &#8220;In Sickness and in Health&#8221; Part 1 and Part 2) [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] &#8211; Been in and out of pain and forced to reduce my training (just read my last blog posts &#8220;In Sickness and in Health&#8221; Part 1 and Part 2) [&#8230;]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Robin Morgan		</title>
		<link>https://myomyfitness.com/in-sickness-and-in-health-part-2-the-pain-game/#comments/51420</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robin Morgan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2014 23:30:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.pullupacademy.com/myomytv.com/?p=7070#comment-51420</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Wow! So much great information. Challenging current beliefs! Love it. SO good to have you back Marianne &#038; to have Jonathan aboard! I am a Personal Trainer branching out into the online world as well, so I loved all the videos. So much to think about &#038; more research to do. Always learning in this industry!
An open mind is mandatory to survive &#038; succeed. Look forward to more workouts &#038; the forward thinking education to come..:)

Cheers,

Robin]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! So much great information. Challenging current beliefs! Love it. SO good to have you back Marianne &amp; to have Jonathan aboard! I am a Personal Trainer branching out into the online world as well, so I loved all the videos. So much to think about &amp; more research to do. Always learning in this industry!<br />
An open mind is mandatory to survive &amp; succeed. Look forward to more workouts &amp; the forward thinking education to come..:)</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Robin</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Simon B		</title>
		<link>https://myomyfitness.com/in-sickness-and-in-health-part-2-the-pain-game/#comments/37769</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Simon B]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Feb 2014 12:09:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.pullupacademy.com/myomytv.com/?p=7070#comment-37769</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hello Marianne.
Just a note to keep going strong.
I always followed an active lifestyle including commuting from D&#039;Dee to Holywood and back right through the year by Bicycle until just over three years ago I was hit by a mental wall prob caused by stress. I had never been sick ever and to be bed ridden was definitely a no no. My body just shut down. I currently am still being diagnosed with suspected fibromyalgia. The last few years have been hard trying to push slowly back to some sort of health. I came across your blog in 2012 while looking for some info on kettlebells and have followed it ever since. I just wanted to say keep going strong on your path both mentally, physically and even more so spiritually. Ps are you a vegetarian. Thanks Simon]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Marianne.<br />
Just a note to keep going strong.<br />
I always followed an active lifestyle including commuting from D&#8217;Dee to Holywood and back right through the year by Bicycle until just over three years ago I was hit by a mental wall prob caused by stress. I had never been sick ever and to be bed ridden was definitely a no no. My body just shut down. I currently am still being diagnosed with suspected fibromyalgia. The last few years have been hard trying to push slowly back to some sort of health. I came across your blog in 2012 while looking for some info on kettlebells and have followed it ever since. I just wanted to say keep going strong on your path both mentally, physically and even more so spiritually. Ps are you a vegetarian. Thanks Simon</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
	</channel>
</rss>

<!--
Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: https://www.boldgrid.com/w3-total-cache/?utm_source=w3tc&utm_medium=footer_comment&utm_campaign=free_plugin

Page Caching using Disk: Enhanced 

Served from: myomyfitness.com @ 2026-06-11 12:28:39 by W3 Total Cache
-->